tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1109681525590028536.post1353327043502053593..comments2024-02-17T01:11:34.207+08:00Comments on Of Kids and Education: Revisiting the assessment of Chinese at PSLEmonlimhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17397210688200284987noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1109681525590028536.post-51197228034435872302010-05-12T18:18:01.487+08:002010-05-12T18:18:01.487+08:00Tan: I also addressed that question of the PRCs in...Tan: I also addressed that question of the PRCs in my post. As for parents speaking to their kids in English, that's definitely true. But the language you speak at home is a lifestyle choice, I don't think you can mandate that people speak Mandarin at home just so the kids can do well in a Chinese exam (and the exam system shouldn't penalise them for this).<br /><br />Anyway, I would like to move on from this topic, fascinating as it is - I've said my all that can possibly be said, so dear readers, please note that I will not be publishing any more comments on this issue. Thanks.monlimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17397210688200284987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1109681525590028536.post-56743783026698827552010-05-12T17:07:42.162+08:002010-05-12T17:07:42.162+08:00I think we need to ask ourselves this question. Wh...I think we need to ask ourselves this question. Why is it that many kids from China, who before joining our education system did not speak a word of Englsih, are able to eventually ace the subject? Why is it then that our own kids despite having the environment still can't do well in Chinese, notwithstanding their claims of putting in hard work?<br /><br />IMHO, I think a large part of that has got to do with the parents. The parents themselves set an example for the kids. A common sight now is that you tend to see more parents speaking to their kids/babies in English, more so over Chinese.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07883121322163643460noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1109681525590028536.post-15697992191300712682010-05-12T10:00:11.003+08:002010-05-12T10:00:11.003+08:00Starystars: No offence taken but I've already ...Starystars: No offence taken but I've already given my views on these arguments ad nauseum so I won't repeat them here.monlimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17397210688200284987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1109681525590028536.post-40314846237086289792010-05-11T22:34:20.722+08:002010-05-11T22:34:20.722+08:00eh, i hope i don't sound too offensive here.
a...eh, i hope i don't sound too offensive here.<br />anyway, i'm against the idea of reducing the weightage of chinese at the PSLE.<br />like many have said, it is unfair to students who are not good at subjects, particularly at English.<br />Why reduce the weightage of chinese when it there are people not good in other subjects?<br /><br />I am a Secondary Three student, and I would say I have no burden about learning Chinese/English. I come from a chinese speaking family.<br />There's no such thing as which language is easier to learn. It is whether you want to learn the language or not. It depends on your attitude. If people can juggle with two languages, why can't you do it?<br /><br />to be good at both languages.. i would say that you need to have the foundation since young..<br />parents should not focus on only 1 language (esp eng).<br />i have a teacher from china who told me that we should treasure this bilingual learning environment.<br />This is definitely a plus for singaporeans.<br />besides, even people from other races, other countries are learning chinese. as a chinese, wouldn't we feel ashamed for not even able to speak our native tongue?<br /><br />starystarsStaRyStaRshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03240935624643485400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1109681525590028536.post-84182906562302264032010-05-11T19:10:53.698+08:002010-05-11T19:10:53.698+08:00Anon: I found it rather ironic that you wrote a Ch...Anon: I found it rather ironic that you wrote a Chinese comment on an English blog and I had trouble trying to read it! (Don't be mistaken, I'm not making fun of you, I'm just finding light-heartedness amidst all the intensity). And this is coming from someone who scored A for Chinese at PSLE and Bs at O and AO levels! I'm a clear example that the exam scoring system doesn't work.<br /><br />Anyway, I feel culture is much more than language whereas the PSLE only tests the language, so it's two separate issues. Anyway, let's just agree to disagree.<br /><br />Min: Thanks, I'm aware of the news.monlimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17397210688200284987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1109681525590028536.post-29389736857669187272010-05-11T18:47:49.340+08:002010-05-11T18:47:49.340+08:00幸亏紧急刹车。母语考试比重不能降,一降就大大影响了学母语的良田。但教改则是必要的。
http:...幸亏紧急刹车。母语考试比重不能降,一降就大大影响了学母语的良田。但教改则是必要的。<br /><br /> http://www.moe.gov.sg/media/speeches/2010/05/11/teaching-mother-tongue-language.php<br /><br />MinAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1109681525590028536.post-56575073138665447412010-05-11T18:13:05.462+08:002010-05-11T18:13:05.462+08:00我不认为教育部或政府会白痴到开历史的倒车。这是什么时代了,当年“扬英抑中”是因为我们面对的是欧美列强...我不认为教育部或政府会白痴到开历史的倒车。这是什么时代了,当年“扬英抑中”是因为我们面对的是欧美列强的国际实况,但今天中国的崛起连西方也不得不开始重视中华文化,看看这次世博吧,连国际展览局主席法国籍的蓝峰也坚持用大家都听不懂的拗口中文来致开幕词,可见"时代真的变了"。务实和利益主导的政府不可能不知道中文今时今日的"含金量"吧。Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1109681525590028536.post-48053076918757577792010-05-11T18:00:08.541+08:002010-05-11T18:00:08.541+08:00Mike: Wow, long list! Ok, I'm no expert but he...Mike: Wow, long list! Ok, I'm no expert but here are my attempts to answer your questions.<br /><br />1) Foundation MT is a relatively new concept, I think introduced only a few years ago so it wasn't available to kids who faced the problem at PSLE for many years. Also, I believe the assessment of Foundation MT at PSLE is different, ie it's even harder to get A or A* so ironically, the issue still lies with the assessment method at PSLE!<br /><br />2) DSAs are notoriously hard to get in, ie the vast majority of kids in top schools get in through PSLE, not DSA. So I don't think it's accurate to say that if a kid can't make it through DSA, he/she's not good enough for the school.<br /><br />3) I think the point about changing the system to allow kids to get into top schools was wrong to begin with, so I can't answer your question, sorry. I feel that the issue was that the ability of some kids was not accurately reflected because it was skewed by the low MT results, so they were not placed in appropriate streams/classes/schools. I don't agree that a kid good in EMS but weak in MT necessarily belongs in an elite school.<br /><br />4 & 5) The problem I find is the non-transparency of the PSLE marking system. People have brandished these figures a lot but the problem is, I strongly believe that these grades are moderated to begin with, ie A* is not necessarily really 91 and above. I say this because my daughter couldn't do 3 problem sums in the PSLE (12 marks) and she knew she got at least a couple of MCQ wrong. Yet she got an A*! Many of her friends encountered the same scenario. So if the grades are moderated to begin with, we'll never know what was really the passing mark because SEAB can raise or lower the bar however they wish, based on their own arbitrary judgement. I'm very sure that if the passing mark was truly at 50, the maths failure rate last year would have been much higher. Unfortunately there is no way of proving this as long as SEAB doesn't reveal all the info.<br /><br />So in short, we really can't tell what is the true ability of kids across subjects at PSLE. That's why I feel the O level scoring is much more transparent.<br /><br />Hope I answered at least some of your questions but again, all these are only my viewpoints.monlimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17397210688200284987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1109681525590028536.post-18912455678001345252010-05-11T17:28:54.093+08:002010-05-11T17:28:54.093+08:00I am new here. There are things which I don't ...I am new here. There are things which I don't understand and I hope you or your readers can spare some times to advise.<br /><br />1) Parents who feel that their kids are suffering from Mother Tongue, why not let their kids do Foundation Mother Tongue in Primary School?<br /><br />2) Kids who are good in other subjects but weak in Mother Tongue can still apply to the better schools through Direct School Admission. Most DSA exams do not have written exams on Mother Tongue. IMHO, if the kid cannot make it to DSA, I don't think they are good enough to go to the elite school.<br /><br />3) Some parents requested to allow students choose the best 3 subjects in their PSLE computation. Main reason is for their kids to enter the elite school. However, better school normally has Higher Mother Tongue. Won't the kids suffer even more in the better school? So are we expecting the elite school to perform miracle to transfor these group of students who cannot cope with their primary school mother tongue to perfrom well in their higher mother tongue during their 4 or 6 years there? Or are we hoping that the elite schools will start to offer CLB?<br /><br />4) For 2009, passing rate for English and Chinese is 97.5% and 97.4% resepctively. Students scoring A & A* for English is 43.9 and for Chinese is 81.1 . A & A* for Malay (72%) and Tamil (78.2%)are also higher than English. The figures speak for everything. Students perform better in Mother Tongue than English. Hence, I don't understand why should we reduce the weightage of Mother Tongue and not Maths or Science or even English.<br /><br />5) You mentioned that "With maths, more practice will definitely improve your scores." Sad to tell you that the passing rate for Maths is only 83.9% and A&A* is only 43.3 . Hence, I don't really agreed with your points. <br /><br />Thanks.<br /><br />MikeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1109681525590028536.post-76479563289206569942010-04-27T19:26:14.430+08:002010-04-27T19:26:14.430+08:00Angela: So interesting, you mean the article is re...Angela: So interesting, you mean the article is relevant to your hw? LOL!monlimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17397210688200284987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1109681525590028536.post-61051800822924723122010-04-27T18:20:23.311+08:002010-04-27T18:20:23.311+08:00I saw her on the Straits Times newspaper as I was ...I saw her on the Straits Times newspaper as I was flipping through the papers to complete my homework!<br />And guess what? I used this article for my homework!<br />(I'm just a P6 girl and I really just happened to see this blog so you may not know me. :) )<br /><br />- AngelaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1109681525590028536.post-56796767741118943902010-04-27T09:50:48.792+08:002010-04-27T09:50:48.792+08:00Elan: But wouldn't this lead to other problems...Elan: But wouldn't this lead to other problems? Since the language of instruction in Singapore is English, every other subject is taught in English. Allowing some to select English as a 2nd language would open the gates to letting their proficiency slide, potentially having them do badly in every other subject except Chinese. This would worsen in sec school where out of the 8 subjects, only 1 is in Chinese. <br /><br />Also, this would also mean allowing those taking Malay, Tamil and Hindi to have these as first languages. Besides the erosion in English, I can also see potential social issues (the ones we used to see of old), the widening of differences among different language elites.monlimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17397210688200284987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1109681525590028536.post-12676527255174267742010-04-26T23:55:59.686+08:002010-04-26T23:55:59.686+08:00Actually there is another way to be "fair&quo...Actually there is another way to be "fair" and I think it used to exist when I was taking my PSLE almost 30 years ago. <br />Since China is on the rise and becoming more important to Singapore as a trading partner and we need people who are extremely proficient in Chinese to do business in China and we are trying to build up a core of "Chinese elite", lets bring back the old system of letting the child/parents choose their first language. After all Chinese is an official language (English is just the working language and ONE of the 4 official languages).<br />Those who are more proficient in Chinese can choose it as their first language and the English (as their second language) weightage can be reduced. For the rest who are more better in English, they can choose EL1 and CL2 (with a lower weightage).<br />I used to be in a SAP school and had a really miserable time spending 99% of my time studying CL1 and still doing badly (see my previous comments on Monica's blog). However, for my PSLE I was allowed to choose EL1 and CL2 and had 3 A* and 1 A (for CL2, of course).<br />Sometimes a step backwards may actually be a step forwards!Elanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11625535963543657041noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1109681525590028536.post-61787580498383842912010-04-24T00:10:33.335+08:002010-04-24T00:10:33.335+08:00YY: That's very astute of you, I didn't th...YY: That's very astute of you, I didn't think that the announcement before was like testing the waters. I'm not sure about just catering to the majority, even though it's clear that the proportion of English-speaking families has burgeoned drastically. <br /><br />Contrary to what the pro-status quo camp think, the interest in Chinese among the English-speaking group is growing, not diminishing. I'm seeing more of these families wanting to send their kids to SAP schools because they recognise the importance of a Chinese culture. Ironically, it's the PRCs who are sending their kids to RI/RGS because they don't need the Chinese environment! That's why I'm not convinced reducing the weightage will reduce standards. The resurgent interest in all things Chinese can drive standards up, exam or not.monlimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17397210688200284987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1109681525590028536.post-76574058483064588592010-04-23T23:38:27.676+08:002010-04-23T23:38:27.676+08:00As a democracy, Singapore should lean towards the ...As a democracy, Singapore should lean towards the wishes of the majority as long as it is not a serious threat to 'national interests'. As time goes on, this move is foreseeable as the percentage of English-speaking families grow. <br /><br />As a 'paternalistic democracy' the impending move was heralded by MM himself admitting his 'mistake' in MT policy years ago. That was like testing the waters. I kinda get the feeling the ministries are actually happy that people subsequently spoke up strongly, and also specifically about reducing MT weightage in PSLE, thus giving them 'democratic mandate' to go on with the move. I think this reduction of MT weightage in PSLE is probably the most 'concrete' move so far made in adjustment of MT education policies. <br /><br />YY.YYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14545799998978344549noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1109681525590028536.post-52223689377861817182010-04-23T23:03:02.016+08:002010-04-23T23:03:02.016+08:00Patricia: You don't know how much I envy you t...Patricia: You don't know how much I envy you that you find Chinese easy to master! My situation was completely the opposite. I grew up in a dialect speaking family, English was foreign to me until k2 and my dad decided we should speak English at home so I wouldn't be intimidated by it. Ironically, I ended up acing English and flunking Chinese!<br /><br />SL: You sound like a very mature kid and I applaud you for being pragmatic over your strengths and voicing your beliefs.<br /><br />Once again, I totally agree that we shouldn't have a system where either Chinese or English speaking kids are penalised. I believe with adjustments, it can be done so that mastery in either will be rewarded. My only problem with the pro-status quo camp is that they want to keep their advantage while penalising the English speaking kids (by not acknowledging there's a problem to begin with). That's just mean-spirited.<br /><br />The motivation behind the move should be to remove stumbling blocks and not who gets to benefit more.monlimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17397210688200284987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1109681525590028536.post-63233794758412924652010-04-23T22:12:11.026+08:002010-04-23T22:12:11.026+08:00I am sitting for my PSLE exam next year and althou...I am sitting for my PSLE exam next year and although my CL is not as good as my China friends, I feel that there is no need to lower the weightage of CL in PSLE.<br />I feel that we should all play on fair ground. If I can't get into the top school like RGS or Nanyang, it means that I am just not good enough. Besides, other than academic results, we can also get into the school via DSA.<br />This concerns me as I feel that it might be unfair to some.<br /><br />SLAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1109681525590028536.post-90785351000574378492010-04-23T22:12:11.027+08:002010-04-23T22:12:11.027+08:00Hi Monica,
I find myself agreeing to most, if not...Hi Monica,<br /><br />I find myself agreeing to most, if not all, of the things you say except when it comes to Chinese, or the learning of Chinese.<br /><br />I am one of those who have breezed through Chinese, and struggled with English all my life. I've never found English to be easy, even as an adult. It's a more rigid language than Chinese, and there are always exceptions to the rules. <br /><br />Chinese-learning is very similar to the learning of English, just that it's easier to pick up, I always believe. You just need to read alot. And Chinese is so much more fluid than English.<br /><br />I'd decided that English is such a difficult language to master, compared to Chinese, that I deliberately alienated my kid from Chinese since young, so that she could grasp English more easily, and be more 'natural' in the language.<br /><br />It's not surprising that she struggles with Chinese now, and to be honest, I do feel a sense of relief on reading about lowering the weightage in Chinese, but like what SC says, it's not fair to pupils who love and have excelled in Chinese and not other English-medium subjects. And I'm really glad this wasn't implemented during my time.Patricianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1109681525590028536.post-60383096716033575922010-04-23T21:17:56.163+08:002010-04-23T21:17:56.163+08:00Anon: I don't agree that there shd be less wei...Anon: I don't agree that there shd be less weightage on the other 3 subjects as I feel they're critical to education. English because it's the official language, Maths and Science because they're basic building blocks of education. A 2nd language is totally different. If it's optional to count Chinese at O levels, I don't see why it has to stand equal weightage at PSLE. <br /><br />But I agree with you there's no compulsion for the best students to go to these schools but try convincing parents of that!<br /><br />SC: Based on the current system, yes it will affect those poor in English and only strong in Chinese. So if the govt goes ahead with this move, they will need to also tweak the points system for those strong in Chinese, to reward them more. Whether this is in the form of HCL, I'm not sure. Although HCL is not only offered to top students, from what I know. It depends on the kid's Chinese results. If you're in a SAP school to begin with, I think most of the kids take HCL unless they really can't cope with it.monlimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17397210688200284987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1109681525590028536.post-64870355284710937642010-04-23T20:38:50.424+08:002010-04-23T20:38:50.424+08:00Thanks!
Yes, those from Chinese-speaking familie...Thanks! <br /><br />Yes, those from Chinese-speaking families AND struggling with borderline English should't be penalised. However, I think this move will hit them directly. HCL has no way to save them, because it is offered only to those very strong in Chinese AND still do reasonably well in other subjects, including English. If they are already so poor in English, no school in its right mind will encourage them to take HCL to get at most that miserable 3 extra points. <br /><br />Sorry, this doesn't really concern me. However, I feel the need to 'lend a voice' to those helpless chaps. <br /> <br />SCAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1109681525590028536.post-83422574260384557822010-04-23T19:45:11.010+08:002010-04-23T19:45:11.010+08:00MOE should now also give special consideration tho...MOE should now also give special consideration those who excel in Maths, Science and MT except English.<br /><br />Same consideration for those who excel in the languages but do badly for Science and Maths and those who excel in Maths and Science but do badly for the languages.<br /><br />In the first place must the best really go to RI, RGS, NYG and CHI?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1109681525590028536.post-45872455853939521092010-04-23T19:01:56.960+08:002010-04-23T19:01:56.960+08:00SC: Why, I sound v uptight ah? Haha! It's insp...SC: Why, I sound v uptight ah? Haha! It's inspiring to read about your experience and your friends'. This is the first time I'm getting a better glimpse into your life, thanks for sharing!<br /><br />I agree that those from Chinese-speaking families shouldn't be penalised either by this move. I think that can be solved by rewarding those who do well in Chinese, maybe via HCL? The challenge is to maintain some balance where those who are good in Chinese are rewarded but not at the expense of those who can't cope well with it.<br /><br />I still stand by my belief that education is a marathon, not a sprint. That's why we shouldn't be so quick to cut off the finish line prematurely at PSLE. That's just the first phase of education.monlimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17397210688200284987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1109681525590028536.post-30988468360173982752010-04-23T15:52:05.249+08:002010-04-23T15:52:05.249+08:00Take it easy, Mon! Didn't you say something l...Take it easy, Mon! Didn't you say something like 'Learning/Education is a marathon, not a sprint.' ? I personally don't see the need to lower the weightage of Chinese although many people find it difficult to master. I don't mind if the weightage is being lowered. Aferall, to be able to survive in this world, we should be prepared for any changes and be very adaptable. My children are in a SAP school and to be honest, many parents I spoke to on this matter don't mind if there is a slight drop in the Chinese weightage, because it will take away some stress off the parents and students. It is not easy to get an A* for Chinese and even our children (and their school) are spending excessive amount of time on Chinese alone.<br /><br />I used to be atrocious in English. I hardly speak in English for the first 21 years of my life but still, didn't I graduate from NUS? I always get a B for English no matter how hard I tried. One of my best friends did not make it to JCs because she flunked her EL1 at 'O' levels even though she did reasonably well for the other subjects. A JC classmate was more lucky and managed to scrape through 'O' levels' EL1 with a C6. Today, this smart cookie is married to his wife, an English graduate and holding a success banking career with a foreign bank and sometimes earning annual bonus of 4 years (yes, in years, not months). When I started working, I had to communicate in English, but still not confident. It was only after I got to know some other mummies who are very strong in their command of English that I realised how to appreciate it more, and how to bring my own standard to a more acceptable level. The greatest advantage of having children of my own now is that I can live a second childhood - learning from and reading as many books (both in English as well as Chinese)as possible to enrich my life. <br /><br />By the way, do you know what is the occupation of the parents of the best friend I mentioned? Vegetable Grower. The smart guy's? Coffeeshop Owner. If we allow the Chinese weightage to be lower, the offsprings of the hawkers, car mechanics, hairdressers and the like will be the casualties and have even more bleak future. There are just so many things against them. <br /><br />SCAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1109681525590028536.post-82463161578531006172010-04-23T14:51:49.416+08:002010-04-23T14:51:49.416+08:00Anon: Welcome! I honestly don't think lowering...Anon: Welcome! I honestly don't think lowering the weightage will lead to lowering of Chinese standards. Too many people are just jumping on that conclusion as if it's foregone. As I pointed out, these are 2 different things and China is a strong enough force to incentivise pple to treat Chinese with importance, exams or not.<br /><br />As for asking for lower weightage for subjects that my kids are strong in, many other parents who have followed by blog over the past 2 years will testify to how I've agonised over my daughter's maths (I was surprised she managed an A*) and my son's English. But I have not (and will never) ask for lower weightage in these subjects because I think there is no logical reason to do so.<br /><br />So in essence, if you're asking whether I'm supporting this issue simply because it benefits me, I'd say no. It's because there are valid points that justify it.monlimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17397210688200284987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1109681525590028536.post-81164740158389626062010-04-23T14:35:09.664+08:002010-04-23T14:35:09.664+08:00Hi,I am new here..
Allow me to share my 2 cents&...Hi,I am new here..<br /><br />Allow me to share my 2 cents' worth..<br /><br />perhaps we should remove PSLE altogether.. After all, we shouldn't be studying just to pass exam..<br /><br />I certainly empathise with your daughter cos my children are struggling too..(both my kids are also in GEP programme)<br /><br />The facts remain, would you ask for lower weightage for other subjects which your kids are strong in??? It's sad that teachers and students only aim to excel in exams, according to standards and guidelines set by MOE..<br />Further lowering of chinese standards will lead to chinese language disappearing from us Chinese.. I am afraid..soon, we will be a group of chinese (with yellow skin) who are going to be laughed at by both Chinese and Westerners alike.. (we know the reasons)<br /><br />I will persevere, however hard it is, but it will be more encourageing if both school teachers and MOE support it..Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com